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of the statements nor does it necessarily endorse the opinions expressed.

Mrs. Anna E. "Ellie" Leiffert Cole

(Milford Manor Nursing Home. Interview taped 8/2/1975)

Complete Transcript

(N) Narrator: Mrs. Ellie Cole

(D) Daughter: Clarisse Cole custer

(I) Interviews:

Date: August 2, 1975

Trascriber: Jackie Kinney


(I): Mrs. Cole, tell us where you lived in Teaneck.

(N): I lived on Summit Avenue, 1180 Summit Avenue. And I lived there for many, many years. Until I was married. and then I lived upstairs at 1180 Summit Avenue. And I didn't leave the house. I still stayed there until my little daughter was 9 years old. before I built my own house right in back on Arlington Avenue. So I really am a citizen of Teaneck.

(I): What year ... can you remember what the year was back then?

(N): Well I can tell you about ... I am 80 years old and I was seven years old when we moved to Teaneck and I was 19 when I was married and I was 21 1/2 when my little daughter was born. And after she grew up and she was engaged to be married, I always wanted a son so she got married and gave me the most wonderful son that a mother ever had.

(I): Well tell us something about ... you were a girl and living in Teaneck? And what was it like back then?

(N): Well there were 13 houses, ours was the 13th house. And 3 of those places were farms. There was Cooper's farm and there was Philips farm and there was Stevenson's farm. And outside of that, there were 10 other houses but very widely scattered to lower Teaneck and up above near Bergenfield and down toward Englewood and you had to walk through woods, through paths in the woods to get to your neighbor. And I had only just one girl in the neighborhood. There name was Kimari. And there was one girl and there were about 5 boys and my mother wouldn't let her play with me because the boys were so rough. So I waited until I was 9 years old and then a family by the name of McMann came to Teaneck and they lived on Forest Avenue about a block away from me and they had a daughter just my age. And that's enough said. We are still friends. We are friends over 70 years. She lives in Oredell with her daughter Millicent. And she has a daughter Nicia. She lives between the two girls but Anicia is out of town somewhere (in New York, on Long Island) and Kitty is a widow.

(I): Did you go to school in Teaneck?

(N): Yes I went to school. On the head of Forest Avenue and Teaneck Road. There was a little school house. It was a two story school house and we had a teacher and she taught the first five grades downstairs. Her name was Miss Rizzu. And our principal was Mr. Jay. And it was a typical country school. In those days we had very severe winters. And you couldn't walk through the roads at all. So my father used to plow going to work, shuffle with his feet up to the ... Teaneck Road and then when I would go to school, I would walk in his steps with Kitty. And then we would get to the end of Forest Avenue and one of the boys whose name was Bill Guthrie and he used to stand there and when Kitty and I and Cathleen Kilmurray would come along, he'd cross through the snow banks and pick us up and carry us over into the school. And when we had those severe storms, Kitty and I were permitted to take our lunches and that was a red letter day. And we both has a beau in the school and at recess time, they'd go in back of the school where Mr. Selvage had an apple orchard. And Mr. Selvage owned almost all of Teaneck - my parents bought their home through him. And Kitty, of course, her parents too. And the boys would go in back to the apple orchard every recess and bring us a beautiful big apple. And all the other kids would be jealous of us.

(I): Was that the smae school that later became the vet school on ...

(N): Yes. It was moved. It was moved from the head of Forest Avenue to Bedford Avenue.

(D): Then I attended that school too. I attended that school too. And mother had a Miss March, Miss Lucy Marcy. Wasn't that her name, Lucy March. And later on I had Miss March.

(I): But she was Principal when you went. Right?

(D): No. She never became Principal. She was a wonderful teacher. Do you remember.

(I): I was there and I am trying to remember. I thought she was the school principal when I was there.

(N): No. She was a maiden lady. And she and her mother lived on Forest Avenue. Next to Seidel's store. They lived upstairs. In the house that Seidel's finally bought. And they lived upstairs there. And Kitty and I used to go and play the piano and sing for her = for Mrs. March's mother.

(D): Miss March.

(N): Miss March's mother. Yes. And one day we had a test. And Miss March said I want each one of you children to write your full names at the head of the test paper. So we all did. And when our papers went up to the front, Miss March said Elizabeth, will you and Catherine come up here please? So we walked up looking at her, you know. And she was looking at me and we didn't know what the dickens happened. What we had done. So Miss March said what's the idea of these names on the top of these test papers. I said, Miss March, didn't you ask us to put our full names on them? She said you don't mean to tell me that this is your name and this is Catherine's name. I said that's just what I mean to tell you. My name was Anna Elizabeth Frederica Lieffert. Kitty's name was Catherine Amelia Millicent Anna McMann. No wonder she nearly had a stroke. I'm tell you. And when we finally told her, we went back to our seats, she had to go out. Her face was dark red. she couldn't laugh in the classroom. But she told us afterward ... my mother, you know ... she said I never laughed like that like I did when those girls wrote their names on my test paper.

(I): What was Catherine's last name?

(N): McMann.

(I): and then didn't you say one of the Kilmurray's ...

(N): Yes. Cathleen Kilmurray.

(I): We are also interviewing Mrs. Cole's daughter, Clarisse Cole Custer who lives at 133 Evergreen Place. She is helping us to tape this. What about some of the other neighbors. You said the Kilmurray's were some ...

(N): And then finally a family by the name of Oliver came up and built a house on Forest Avenue and Arlington Avenue. And we, after several years, we built our bungalow on Arlington Avenue.

(D): That's Mr. and Mrs. Thomas Oliver.

(N): Yes. Mr. and Mrs. Thomas Oliver. And I always called them Uncle Tome and Aunt Dell and I spent 3/4 of my time in that house over there. And she taught me how to bake bread and how to do lots of things. Because there were no other little girls quite close except Kitty and when she wasn't home, I was lost. So I'd go over to Aunt Dell and she'd play with me.

(D): And of course your life was very, very close to the formation of the church. All of your social activities were ...

(N): Oh yes. I wanted to tell you that. They finally, Mr. George Cole of Englewood who was a millionaire, he was very mcuh interested in Teaneck. And interested owing to the fact that we had no church, not even a Sunday school. So several of the people ... neighbors like Heroy's like that got together and they said well why can't we have a church service on Sunday. Let's meet in one another's house. So they did that and they met in my mother's house ... first they met in Aunt Dell's house the first Sunday, then in my mother's house. And at each house where they held the service, the lady of the house was the minister. She read the Bible verse and she talked on the verses that she read and then we'd sing one or two hymns without any music, but we'd sing ... and I was of course ... another family who lived on Arlington Avenue name of Frank ... and they finally came and built a house on upper Arlington Avenue near Route 4. And they had two daughters and a son and Lita was Kitty and my age and her mother and father had the services at their house also when it came their turn so Lita and I were the only young people who went to these services. Finally Mr. Cole came up and talked to the different families and siad that I think it is time that we had some place where the sunday school could meet. And they talked about it and Mr. Cole built the sunday school. Our first sunday school. It was built on Church Street and Teaneck Road. The little old sunday school.

(D): Wat that the Washington Avenue Church?

(N): Yes. The Washington Avenue Sunday School.

(I): What kind of a building was it?

(N): A stone building. It had a first floor and a basement. And we had our services there. And then of course we still had to meet for church services at one another's house, I am talking about the families. Finally after several years, Mr. Cole suggested that the members of the church buy over the Sunday school in a certain length of time. And take it over and have the church services there and rechristen it Teaneck Presbyterian Church. Instead of Sunday school. And Lita and I were the only two who played piano. And both of us played for many years. We played for the services. We had church at 11 o'clock Sunday morning, 3:00 o'clock we had Sunday school and 8:00 we had church. Wednesday nights we were to church again for prayer meeting and Friday nights we had our little choir what we got together. There was about eight of us all together. Then we had several more children in the neighborhood. And we went and oh we thought we were the biggest things in the world. that was the most beautiful place and we had very many affairs and they were very nice but we had them mostly in the summer and we'd have them outside. We had picnics and we had strawberry festivals ...

(D): Tell about the strawberry festivals on ... on Hawkie's lawn or Campbell's. Remember the big houses, then you know Teaneck Road was all lined with these beautiful ... what were they, Oak trees?

(N): No. They were Elm trees and they met on top. And if it rained you wouldn't get wet.

(D): It was just like going through beautiful, natural tree tunnel of some kind, you know. And they had these little summer houses on their property which they call gazebos. And they had ponies and baskets, you know the pony drawn baskets, pony carts. And we'd, I can vividly remember and I must have been very young, but I can vividly remember the beautiful lanterns strung on a huge ... and of course it kind of went up on a hill like, the property, before it was all flatened for so much building. And of course everybody you know would be at these strawberry festivals and then ladies were still wearing the beautiful long summer dresses, you know, with the hand made lace and their pretty hats with lace edging on and everything was so pretty and so gracious at that time. I don't know, ever the strawberries tested sweeter and better. Of course the berries came from the farm right around there ... Do you remember Hawkies and Samples?

(I): They had Campbell too. Mrs. Sample and Mrs. Campbell and Mrs. Hawkie.

(D): And you talk about son of a guns. I mean I don't know who it was, whether it was ... what was Hawkie's boy's name

(N): Billy Hawkie

(D): Billy Hawkie and a friend of his and they had this pony drawn cart and they came all the way down to our neighborhood. I don't know, I guess maybe they were looking for Gladys Nelson and the Nibby girls or something like that, you know they were very pretty. Minna and Dorothy Nibby. And Gladys Nelson. And then Lillian Moore was such a beautiful girl. And then of course you remember Dottie ... Dorothy Lieffert and when mother speaks of her mother, that was the Bertha Lieffert that you talk about who Viola wanted to portray in the play, you know. That Lieffert, that's my mother's mother. And they came all the way down to our neighborhood and proceeded to, I don't know who I was with, I know I was never allowed to be any further than my front yard. But anyway maybe I was going across to play with Hazel, the Ridley's you know, and I might have been going across to play with Hazel but anyway, they chased me with that pony and that cart. I was never so scared in all my life. I was deathly afraid of anything that vaguely resembled a horse. And the strange part of it is is that today I have a daughter who is a beautiful equestrian. And she loves them. She trusts them implicitly. And I still think they are still big, stupid beasts.

(N): She took part in Madison Square Garden, the horse show.

(I): Your granddaughter?

(N): Yes and everybody said that she had the most perfect posture.

(D): Yes but anyway we want to hear about 70 years ago.

(N): Oh yes. And then they came along and built different houses on Forest Avenue and on Teaneck Road going down to the West Englewood station. And on Teaneck Road and West Englewood Avenue, on the corner, they built a very nice big house to act as a sort of a club house and today that is a four-family apartment house but at that time there were different ones, different men in the neighborhood who would be president of the club and every Saturday night they had a dance and holidays they would have a dance and at midnight they would have a banquet and yours truly was the first one there and the last one home. And we had wonderful times there, just wonderful times. When we used to take a walk on a Sunday and we'd walk around Phelps' farm for a reason and we'd walk all the way down to Stevenson's farm and down to Forest Avenue and when we'd come home, we would have two or three big baskets full of vegetables and fruit and everything else. They'd all give us ... do you want some corn, do you want some vegetables? How would you like some apples and some pears? Then we would go to Stevenson's and we would come out and he'd say, come on girls, I'll give you some. Tell me what you want. Then he'd load up a bag for us. By the time we got home, our mothers didn't have to buy vegetables until the next week. It was wonderful.

(I): Where was Philip's' Farm?

(N): On Teaneck Road, let's see, opposite where?

(D): Well opposite ... was it on the side where the Municipal Building is today or was it on the other side.

(N): No. Near West Englewood Avenue. It was opposite ... somewhere opposite West Englewood Avenue. All that place was Philip's Farm.

(D): Not on the side where Hazelton's lived?

(N): No. No. On the other side of the street. On ther other side of Forest Avenue. On our side of the tracks. Here is Teaneck Road, here was the Hazelton's and everybody and across Teaneck Road was where Philip's Farm was. As you go up toward Bergenfield, Philip's Farm was on the right side.

(D): Oh I see. Over on what do you call that long road where now where the Betty Brite and the A&P is down there.

(I): Queen Anne road? Tryon Avenue?

(D): No. It was goes right up over the hill.

(I): New Bridge Road?

(D): New Bridge Road. Because we used to walk all along New Bridge Road...

(N): And you know something. Kitty and I used to have to go and do shopping on Saturday's for our mothers. Listen to this. It was easy over two miles from Teaneck to Englewood. We had to do shopping. If we forgot something, we walked right back to Englewood again and got it. So one time, we had each gotten a nickel from our mother's to spend after we did the shopping and I found ten cents in my mother's pocketbook so we each had another nickel. So when we got to Englewood and we did the shopping, we each were thirsty and we had, listen to this, we had a strawberry soda. then Kitty had to go into Munser's Butcher Store and order her mother's meat and I had to get my mother's meat and we bought a dill pickle. And we ate the dill pickle. So we came out and we had a nickel and we went in and you know the bag of candy you could get for a nickel, penny candy, we ate every bit of it on the way home. I remember seeing Kitty going up the steps and that's all I remember. I don't know how I got home across the road and finally on the following day I said Kitty, what happened when you got home last night. And she said oh Ellie, I was so sick. Oh my god. What happened to you? And I said oh Kitty I was so sick, my father was holding my head and my mother was holding my hand. She said me too. We were both so deathly sick. And Mrs. McMann said she was Irish, that servies you girls right. Is that the way we brought you up? You make little pigs of yourselves. Now you ought to get sick and throw up. And then I ... we played dolls but we didn't play regular dolls, my grandmother was a dressmaker and she used to get the fashion magazines, Delineator and Vogue and all of them, and when she got done with them, she gave them to us and we cut out the paper dolls so we played paper dolls. So when I was 15, I belonged to a dramatic club and this Edna Foster, they had bought a home in Teaneck not very far from us, and she had started a dramatic club and we were studying for the play Camille and I met my husband and his brother so I went out with his brother. So when he went home, my husband said to him, how did you like the girl you went out with yesterday. He said she's very pretty and she's a lovely girl but she's too darn slow for me. So Clarence said to him, if she's too slow for you, do you mind if I go down to see her. She ought to be just about right for me. He said, no, she's yours. So he rode down, shirttails flying on his bicycle, from Dumont and came up and my grandmother said there's a fellow coming in the gate here. I said go to the door and you let him in. She said he's not coming to see me, he's coming to see you. You let him in. And I said then he ain't coming in. I'm not letting him in. I don't want no fellow in here. And I was playing dolls on the setee in the living room. Finally my grandmother goes upstairs and the bell rings and I don't let him in ...

(I): How old were you?

(N): 15. I pushed the dolls underneath the setee and I opened the door and he said, hello. Are you surprised to see me? I said yes, I am. Well, he said, I tell you what I came for. And I invited him in. And he sat in that corner and I sat in this corner. About 50 feet apart. Big room. And he said i came to findout if you'd like to go to New York tomorrow to a show. Oh my God, I thought, New York. I said oh, oh. He said well I'll ask your mother. I said yes. So he asked my mother and my mother said I think you are old enough and big enough to take care of my daughter. And he said I promise you I'll take very good care of her. And he came to me and he took me to New York and he took me to a beautiful restaurant for dinner and he took me to a show and I owned New York. I wouldn't look at anyboday. I was the biggest thing on the street. And I had the handsomest fellow. And I kept looking at him and thinking, oh God, I hope he comes down again. So the following Saturday, my boyfriend was down again. And he came down for quite a while so we had been keeping company about 4 years and finally I was sitting on the setee with him one Sunday and he said something about going on a vacation in the summer but he said before that he said we are going to be married. I said oh, are we going to get married? He said what the devil do you think I've been coming here four years for? So I got so excited, I didn't even see him. My mother came down and I said, we are going to get married. She said, is that so? I'm not a bit surprised. And I was so excited, my grandmother started talking about wedding dresses and my mother started to talk about putting things in a hope chest so I started to fill a hope chest. Wait until you hear this. My mother gives me six little white linen shirts trimmed with balacine's lace that I had worn so I put them on the top of my hope chest. So one Sunday when Clarence came down, it was raining buckets and we didn't know what to do so mother said why don't you take Clarence up and show him what's in your hope chest. So I said that's a good idea. So we went upstairs and I opened the hope chest and what's on top but the baby shirts. So he said to me, what's this? Oh, I said, that's mine. He said, what are you going to do with those? I said, I don't know. He said, well you have high hopes, don't you. Well, he said, so do I. He said, better save them. Maybe we can use them. I said, I hope so. So then somebody talked and talk came back to me and his brother said on Sunday when he got off the train, Clarence isn't coming down. He's gone out with another girl from Brooklyn. Well you can imagine me. I was heartbroken. And I said, that can't go on because we are engaged. We are going to be married. He said, I can't help that. He said, he's got another girl.

(D) This was my uncle's idea of being funny.

(N): So I was ... so I went home and told my father and my father was very German. He said, put your hat on, get your coat. I said where are we going? He said we are going to Dumont. We are going to visit a sick boy. He had said he had malaria. He was sick. So we went right down and got the next train up to Dumont. And we walked to Cole's house. And I knocked at the back door and Granny open the door. She said, how nice to see you. She said, come in. I said, this is my father. And I introduced them. She said, well come in. Clarence will be awfully glad to see you. I said is Clarence home? She said why yes. He's sick with malaria. So I went in and he was laying on the setee. Oh my God, where did you come from? I said, we had to come up and see you. I heard you were sick. So he said, yes I was very sick. But he said I feel fine now. So we stayed for supper that night. When he came down on a Wednesday night, I told him the story. I never heard the end of it but I didn't see his brother for quite a while.

(D): I rather imagine they had an understand ...

(I): You were talking about the Stevenson's and the Hawkie's. Tell us something about those families.

(N): My mother was a practical nurse at the time. And, of course, we know the Stevenson's through the farm and my grandmother was a dressmaker and she had worked for Mrs. Hawkie and Mrs. Campbell and Mrs. Sample. So she was very friendly with them and they like her very much. So this one time, Mrs. Sample asked mother to come to take care of her sister, that she was going to have a baby so mother went there and it happened during the Christmas holidays so mother was there for Christmas eve and Christmas day and Mr. Stevenson came in and he said, you should have told me that you were coming on Santa Claus day. We would have had something for you. So Mrs. Hawkie said, father we have taken care of that. So I had many nice packages there that they had given me for Christmas. And then shortly after that, Mrs. Stevenson came to our church service in Teaneck Presbyterian Church. And I had this Reverend George Woodbury who married us. I must tell you about that too. And he was at the church service this Sunday morning and he had a minister with him from the New York Theological Seminary, a young minister. And he was very fervent in what he said and he said now we are going to have a prayer and I want every member in the congregation to kneel. So we all kneeled and Mr. Stevenson stood upright in front of me. I said, Mr. Stevenson, you are supposed to kneel. I kneel for no man and the minister started to pray and I was shaking like mad and I thought he is not going to go to heaven when he dies if he don't kneel down when he is saying a prayer to God. That's the end of him. So I went home and I said to my grandmother, you better talk to Mr. Stevenson. Something terrible happened this morning. And I told her about it. So when she went there to sew, Mr. Stevenson said, good morning, grandmother. She said yes, good morning. She said what did you do yesterday in church? He said oh she told you about it, did she? So she said yes, she told me about it. And she said, why didn't you kneel? He said, I kneel for no man he said and I wouldn't kneel for him. He said and besides I had on a new pair of pants.

(I): Was it your grandmother, then, that took care of Mr. Stevenson?

(N): No. My mother. My mother was the nurse.

(N): So I was 16 years old and mother called me one day and she said, I had come home from school, she said I want you to do something for me. Mrs. Beyer and Mrs. Jung come together to have their babies and I can't take care of them both. Will you take care of Mrs. Jung? I had never done it. So I said yes I will. So I went to Mrs. Jung and she said, oh Ellie, are you going to take care of me? Good, she said, we will have some nice time here. I said yes we will. So I took care of her.

(I): And where was Mrs. Jung?

(N): She lived on Circle Drive.

(I): Is that Johny Jung?

(N): Yes. Johny Jung. And I took care of her. I stayed there for quite a while, for two weeks, and then Mr. Jung told me, he was a orthopedic doctor and he told me that I was one of the finest nurses that he had ever known. He said you were wonderful. And that was the beginning of my nursing career. I was a practical nurse for about eight years. And another thing that I have to tell you that I'm very, very proud of. I and the doctor whose private nurse I happened to be, Dr. Ralph Dennik of Hackensack, we helped deliver my four granddaughters.

(D): Well you worked with Dr. Dennik with my first child and then Dr. Bayer and then Dr. Keter. I have been in the hospital at least six times but I would never have a baby in the hospital. But I can't explain this because it was my decision but I just never wanted to have a baby in the hospital.

(I): well because I guess you knew your mother's capabilities and you were confident

(D): Well this is the whole thing, you know, and of course it was very nice. I mean I didn't have to share the doctor or my nurse with anybody.

(N): When you know when Clarisse expected my last granddaughter Gail I was already in the throws of this arthritis and could hardly walk. I walked with two canes. And I prayed to God to give me my legs just one hour that I could deliver that baby and he gave me my legs for two hours. And I had prepared her bedroom and I had the furniture all covered with Lysol, did the sheets and I had everything sterilized, the baby's things and Clarisse's things.

Side II

(I): When you lived on Forest Avenue, well you were on Summit, can you tell us were there any stores down there. They tell me there was a shoe shop ...

(N): Well now wait and I'll tell you about that. There's a little country store and the name of them was Sitzman and they were on Cooper Avenue. Cooper Avenue and Forest Avenue. It was a general store. They were very, very good. There was a son and his mother who ran the little store. Then up near Teaneck Road, just before you got to Teaneck Road and Forest Avenue, there was Seidel's store. That was also a country store and Mrs. Seidel and her husband and her step daughter ran that store. And then a little further on, nearer Teaneck Road, was Scathiti, the shoe man.

(D): He was not there as early as Sitzman and Mrs. Seidel.

(N): No he wasn't there that early but I mean this happened a couple of years apart.

(I): There was someone there before Scathiti.

(N): No. No. He was the only one. Sitzman was the first store. Ane then some years after, Seidel opened a store. And then some years after that, Mr. Scathiti opened his store.

(D): That was some years because that was when I was going to school. They didn't come to town ntil almost when I started high school because Ballestrini was there.

(I): Where was Ballestrini?

(N): That was in Seidel's store. That was on Forest Avenue. He bought Seidel's out.

(I): Now tell us something about what your own house was like?

(N): Well when we first came to Teaneck ...

(I) Where did you come from first?

(N): Brooklyn. South Fourth Street. Brooklyn.

(I): And what made you come to Teaneck?

(N): Well my mother was in the hospital at the time. She had a very serious operation. And doctor said to my grandmother who was taking care of me and my father that she should be out in the country. And that was my father's meat and my grandmother's too. They both wanted to be out in the country. So they had read an advertisement in the paper about Teaneck -- it was Manhattan Heights at that time -- so they came to Teaneck and Mr. Selvage owned practically all of Teaneck so they spoke to him about having a house in Teaneck and he said well, we would built it. But in the meantime, if they wanted my mother to come to the country when she came out of the hospital, we could live in the Sample house which was on Tuxedo Square. It was a little bungalow but it had an upstairs. The two bedrooms upstairs and three little rooms downstairs. And we lived in that Sample house for a little more than a year before our house was built in Summit Avenue.

(I): Now do you mean that this was a modelhouse? Or do you mean that it belonged to the Samples?

(N): No. This was a sample house. That Mr. Selvage was building. It had nothing to do with Mrs. Sample. It was what was called a model house but they called it the sample house. So Mr. Selvage built the house for them.

(I): And how did you happen to get in tough with Mr. Selvage? Was he the one that had the advertisement in the paper?

(N): Yes. Yes. He owned all of Teaneck practically.

(I) And was that his advertisement that was in the paper?

(N): Yes. I don't know where the office was but in some house, he had an office. And that's where they went. Adn they bought the property.

(I): And was the advertisement in the New York paper?

(N): Yes. In the Brooklyn Paper. And in the German paper. And that's where my grandmother saw it. Then they built our house and we moved into our house and to us that was a palace. It was just a palace. And another thing I must tell you, up until I was 7 years old, till we moved to Teaneck, I didn't speak a word of English. I spoke Plottish and German entirely because my father and my grandmother were German and my great grandmother was Plottish. So I spoke it very fluently. But I soon got to know the kids and got to school and I learned how to speak English.

(I) Now tell me what your house was like. Describe it.

(N) Well we had downstairs we had a kitchen and a digning room and a living room. And a hall, a nice big hall. The stairs went upstairs from the hall. And then upstairs we had three bedrooms, nice size bedrooms, three and we had a bathroom and then after we lived in the house some years, my mother and my father had the ...

(D) Excuse me, but didn't you say that there were four bedrooms and you had the small bedroom until Nana and Grampy decided to make a bathroom in there.

(N) Yes, that's right.

(D) And then your small bedroom became the bathroom and you had moved into the third floor.

(I) Where was your bathroom before that? Outside.

(N) No. Inside. We didn't have a ... we had a toilet downstairs but no bathtub. Nana had tubs in the kitchen. And when Clarisse and my cousin were little kids, we used to bath them in the tubs in the sink and they would poke their fingers in the hole between the tubs, you know.

(D) And my grandmother had a big black coal range in the kitchen, you know. And then right off the kitchen like where the back door vestibule was, right there was a lavatory. But then they ... my grandmother decided that it was a matter of imperative emergency that they have a bathtub. And so then that's when they put the ... it was a lovely big bathroom they made in the house.

(N) Then they decided to finish off the third floor. And they made two beautiful rooms in the attic and I took over the third floor. For a number of years.

(I) So then you had your coal stove and ...

(N) And in the winter we had little pot belly stoves in the living room and upstairs in the bedrooms and that had to be taken care of all night and all the time, you know. And I was married. I lived upstairs in my mother's house. And I had the two rooms and my mother put a kitchenette on for me. And I had to do my baking and roasting down in my mother's coal stove until, of course, I built my own place and when I had my own place I wouldn't look at anybody. I was the biggest thing in Teaneck.

(I) When were married. Where were you married?

(N) At home. And Rev. George M. Woodbury married us. And I must tell you what he said. When I was married, ten minutes after I was married, I was sitting on his lap feeding him chicken salad, the minister. And after I went into the living room, I thought I'd better go into my new husband, and he was talking to my mother and he said, Mother Lieffert, he said, I've done the hardest thing today that I've done in my whole life. She said what's that Geroge? He said I married Ellie to another man. She said I never know that. He said, didn't you know. He said well I would have done something about it if it hadn't been such a fine man, but he said, Clarence was too fine. And I said it wouldn't have done him any good because I was very much in love. So I come near being a minister's wife.

(D) You are telling all your secrets there.

(I) Well you can look back now. It gives you a little lift anyway and it makes you fell good.

(N) Yes, it does. And I am going to tell you, I was married 46 years and I didn't have a husband. My daughter will bear me up on this. I had a sweetheart.

(I) Isn't that wonderful?

(N) And Clarisse had a sweetheart. She had a father that was second to none.

(I) And as they say, it takes two.

(N) That's right.

(I) What did your father do?

(N) My father was ... worked in Tiffany. He was a diamond setter and appraiser for Tiffant's on Fifth Avenue in New York.

(I) So after you moved to Teaneck, your mother got better, I guess?

(N) Yes. Oh Yes. Fine. Then my mother went into nursing. She was a practical nurse for many years and like I said when two cases came together, that's how I started in. I enjoyed it very much.

(I) In those day, apparently Teaneck was quite a summer resort.

(N) Oh yes. People, I'm telling you, if you had ...

(D) Didn't he work for Tiffany's before Tiffany came to New York?

(N) Yes, he worked in the Forest Hills factory as a silversmith to begin with and then he took up goldsmithing. And when Tiffany's had a job opened for a jeweler, they recommended him to the Fifth Avenue store and they had a shop upstairs so my father, he was a jeweler at first and then he learned the diamond setting business and appraising. And he could appraise diamonds to $2.00. So when he died, he was appraiser and diamond setter for Tiffany's. He was then pensioned by Tiffany's.

(I) Well that shop in Forest Hills was probably where they made the glass.

(N) Yes. And silver. Sterling silver and everything like that.

(I) We were just talking about ... I've forgotten now what it was. Just before we started talking about your father and Tiffany again. I was going to ask you, I think, you said you went all through the school there on Teaneck Road

(N) Just grammer school.

(I) Just grammer school. And then, of course, you were only 15 when you got married.

(N) No. No. I was married when I was 19. I kept company four years.

(I) How about you mentioned the nelson girl, what was her name?

(N) Gladys and Agnes.

(I) Well they were there...

(N) And they had a little country store on Forest Avenue right near us and ... many years later when I was married ...

(I) But we were saying that Teaneck was like a summer resort.

(N) Oh yes. And if you had a house in Teaneck, God help you. You had company all summer. My mother had company all summer. And my uncle, they used to bring such crowds of fellows down to our house from Brooklyn, they slept on top of the dining table two of them. They slept all over the place.

(D) You must say that this was before Uncle Willie was married.

(N) No. No. Margie and Katie came too.

(D) And then he worked for the gas company

(N) For the Brooklyn Gas and Electric Company. He was a gas meter inspector. And then he left that and he bacame a motorman on the trolley. From Brooklyn to Coney Island. that was my mother's brother. And for a nickel we could go from Brooklyn and sit right on the front seat with Uncle Bill on the front seat of the car and for a nickel we would go all the way to Coney island. And then he gave Marge and I each a dollar to spend all day in Coney Island. We had a grand time. You got a ride for 5¢ for heaven sake.

(I) But I know that some of the people were talking about Teaneck being so sparsely settled but the people had their summer homes in Teaneck. Now was this the case with the Hawkie's and the Sample's and all?

(N) No. that isn't so. there weren't many summer homes in Teaneck. No there weren't.

(I) They made permanent homes here.

(N) That's right. They made permanent homes. But I tell you, all the people, all our neighbors had nothing but company all summer because this was the country and you went out to the county.

(D) But what about people on the upper strata like the Selvages and that? Could they conceivably have had what they considered to be a summer home in Teaneck?

(N) No. No They did not. They lived on Forest Avenue ... on Teaneck Road between West Englewood Avenue and Forest Avenue. They lived between there and do you know where St. Anastasia's Church was, on Teaneck Road, next to Robinson Street, I mean.

(I) That became the priests' house but a senator built that house.

(N) that's right. Yeah.

(I) Senator Robinson.

(N) That's right.

(I) Then did your mother deliver a lot of the Stevenson children?

(N) No. My mother delivered two of them.

(I) Because she had 17 children.

(N) My mother delivered a baby for Mrs. Hawkie and then if I am not mistaken it was Mrs. Sample who she took care of next. And then she went once to take care of old Mrs. Stevenson before she passed away. And my grandmother sewed for all these people for Shuman's on Teaneck Road and Robinson's and ...

(D) Well it's not wonder they wanted Nana to sew for them because she was not just a dressmaker, she had a ... studied millinery and designing and fashion designing and she traveled to Paris and she was in a state of retirement actually you know, but they just wouldn't let her retire. Remember they used to wear these beautiful dresses with bodices all hand made with pearls, she did all that pearl work and all ... and smocking and all the little tiny tucks and ...

(N) Do you know I was married when I went to the store and bought a hat? I never bought one before. My grandmother made them. and I never bought a coat. My grandmother made them.

(I) What about ... did she use a pattern to make these dresses?

(N) she cut out her own pattern. My grandmother every seam she overcast. Every seam on the wrong side and wait until I tell you something. My father had a sister in Philadelphia. She was married and had two sons and they were all three jewelers like my father but they had their own store and shop in West Philadelphia and my aunt sewed all her things. And they always said that I took after her. I looked like my own mother but in many ways I took after my aunt. And I would buy a piece of material, three yards of material, I had never seen a pattern down in my mother's house, and I would put it on the dining room table and the scissor and look at the thing and I'd go this way. My grandmother would say she hasn't got a pattern. Look what she's doing to that. Oh Bertha look. Do you know what that cost. That cost $4. My mother would say leave her alone. she knows what she's doing. And my father would come out and say Lord, that's my sister. My aunt would put a piece of material down and she'd say do you like this. And I'd say yes. And she'd say well are you going with Louis and George to the show tonight? I'd say yes. She'd say you'll have a new dress. And in about an hour ...

(I) The reason I'm asking is because see my grandmother used to do the same thing and my mother too and this is why I asked you that because I know they didn't use any patterns. Only in recent years did my mother bother to use them.

(D) And all of the plain basic dresses that our mothers' used to make for us, they are all right back in the best stores and you're paying premium prices for them and they are nothing but two seams and four dats and a shoulder seam.

(I) I still have a dress home that my grandmother cut out for me. I think I was 14 then and my mother, well she sewed for me but my mother did too, and then all the time I was in school, my mother, well early when we were kids my mother was designing on Park Avenue and she would bring home fabric from there like a scotch plaid skirt and velveteen top and all this stuff. And she would make my brother's knickerbockers and jackets and it was years before I bought a coat or my brother even bought a coat. In those days they were overcoats.

(N) Do you remember when Edna Foster and I were in all the amateur theatricals in Teaneck?

(I) No I don't remember that.

(N) You know when my father had the Teaneck ...

(I) I was never allowed to come up that far. Because I was ... You acted in some of those plays that they used to put on?

(N) All of them. All of them. Mr. Hazelton was the director. And Edna and I were in every one of his plays. I was between 16 and 18 and so was Edna and Edna formed a dramatic club, that's how I met my husband. And we were in all these theatricals. And you knowwhen the girls here, when I first came here and the girls, five of them would sit on my bed. And they would say tell us when you were young. Tell us what you used to do. And I told them about some of the plays I was in like Trixie Fularay, Actress and the Last of the Cargills and Kentucky Days and plays like that, you know, and they'd made me tell them part of them and they said, oh you were an actress. I said I couldn't call myself that, it was just amateur acting but we got such a kick out of it. It was wonderful. We were so big.

(I) Was it Figerman that played the piano?

(D) Dorothy Fickerman. She lived on Washington Place on the corner of Teaneck Road.

(I) So then you must remember when my mother and father came here too?

(N) Yes, I do.

(D) What was your father's name?

(I) Ben

(D) Why do I associate him with the barber shop down on ...

(I) Because that was my father

(D) But then who was it what was in with him? Who was the blond stocky ... what was his name?

(I) Joe. That was his brother.

(D) Oh, Joe. And I insisted that his name was Tony. I used to like him. I thought his wife's name was Millie.

(I) It is.

(D) I asked you did you have an Uncle Tony and you said yes. And I said wasn't his wife's name Millie and you said no, Ruth. Is that what you said.

(I) I misunderstood you. I thought you said was Tony's wife's name Millie and I said no, Ruth. Tony is my brother.

(N) Do you remember Johny Salarno?

(I) I remember them vaguely. I don't ... the only one of the Salerno's that I remember is the one that was the teacher up at the high school. That's Sal. He is the only one that I remember.

(D) Sal was a great person.

(N) You know Clarisse and Jenny started school the same day. I must tell you this.

(D) No, not Salerno. That was Jenny Milano.

(N) Jenny Milano, that's right. And I said now Clarisse, you must try to get along with all the little girls and boys because you are going to be going to school a long time. I will mother. And I said don't use your hand on any one but if anyone hits you, I said, don't stand there and take it. You can give it back to them. Oh my God. I ate my words after that. She went to school and we had the Reception grade teacher, Miss Todd, boarding with my mother, So Clarisse came home from school ...

(D) Who later married Bill Middlemas

(N) And Clarisse came home about the third or fourth day from school. All out of breath. Pulling up her sleeve. I fixed her. I fixed her. I said baby what's the matter? She said I fixed Jenny. I said you what? She said, you know what, mother, the bell rang and we had to get on line and she said Jenny was in front of me. And she turned around and said, oh ha, ha, ha fat stuff. She said and I took a hold of her and I gave her a shove. She landed her on a basement window right on the windowsill outside. One more inch and she's have been through to Mr. James down in the basement. So when they came out, of course, they said Clarisse, what did you do that for? She said she's not going to call me fat stuff. That's not nice. My mother don't like anybody else to call me like that. And she's not going to call me that. So I had to tell her now don't you hit anybody for any reason. If anybody hits you, you tell the teacher. Oh.

(D) Well in those days, anybody that looked as if they had three square meals a day, when we first started school, all the kids were so scrawny and skinny you know, and if you had three square meals a day, if you were healthy look you were a ... practically an amazon.

(N) And one day Clarisse asked to go to the court. So Jenny had to go too. And Miss Todd said they were gone so long, she sent somebody down to look for them. So they come up and she said, what were you doing down there Clarisse. She said I had to wash Jenny's face and hands. She said why, what happened? She said, my goodness she didn't even get washed before she came to School. She was dirty and I washed her and I combed her hair. So Miss Todd spoke to Mr. James, I don't know if you remember Mr. James the colored, oh the kids loved him and he was so good to him and Miss Todd spoke to him and he said, yes, he said, I just let her alone because he said, she was right. The little girl's face and hands were dirty and it was all funny and she braided her hair and she fixed the bow on it and she washed her face and hands and she took the bath paper, he said, and she dried her and then she took her by the hand and took her upstairs. My daughter.

(D) And Mr. Davis, the cop on the corner. Do you remember old Mr. Davis?

(N) Fred Davis. And when he went off the cops, when he retired, Clarisse came home one day with a nice big package in her hand. And I said where did you get that baby? She said I don't know, Mr. Davis gave it to me. Papa Davis gave it to me. and she opened the package and she had six pair of beautiful socks. He was a fine man.

(D) Oh he was a wonderful person. And we had Mr. Jay, Mr. Jay was, don't you remember Mr. Jay? And you must remember Miss Marsh too.

(N) And she used to say to Kitty and I, you know what I really am? I'm not your school teacher. And we'd say what are you? She'd say I'm your Grandma Marsh. And we'd say, are you? And she'd say, yes, but don't you say that in front of the other children. Because they will all say it and I don't want to be their grandmother. I'm just your grandmother.

(D) And we were talking about Miss Kennedy. Remember Miss Kennedy and how she ...

(I) Everybody remembered her.

(D) She would sweep into the auditorium, you know, for music lessons so dramatically. I used to think that this was wonderful. She made a very grand entrance you know. And all I can remember is her directing everybody and we'd be singing "Welcome sweet springtime. We greet thee." And you couldn't help but sing. Even the kids who couldn't sing. They would be standing there and they would be going through all the motions because she was filled with this wonderful vitality. She had a great vitality. And I never forget when she got married ... Madison ... and I thought, I think it was because I admired her so greatly and I thought that she was ... she really wasn't a pretty woman, she was an extremely attractive woman because she had this marvelous dramatic presentation and so automatically, even before I had ever laid eyes on her husband, you know, I had a great romantic story built around them. I fantacized the whole thing, you know, and I was sure that I was going to just simply, he was ... he had to be the most handsome, you know, and I did. I thought that for years that Mr. Madison was the most attractive man and I thought that they were just beautiful. But she was really a very ... remember the plays she used to put on and I'll never forget Lois Murphy ... and Mrs. Madison used to put on these plays and everything was worked out with music and drama and I'll never forget, Lois and I were rippling waters and to this day whenever we come face to face, I'll say well how are you rippling water, you know? And this was another one and it was typically Mrs. Madison. You can just see the whole thing. It was priceless honestly. Everybody going around with this gauze, theatrical gauze, dyed, our mother had to dye it and everything else. In a million pieces and it was marvelous.

(N) And then she and Lois would do this in my living room, go prancing around being rippling waters in my house.

(I) Well where did Lois live that you were so close?

(D) She lived all the way over in West Englewood. But don't forget that her mother drove her over to my house and my father drove me over to her house. And I mean our parents didn't stand a chance. I mean this was the way it was going to be.

(N) And you know on about a Thursday she and Lois and Vera would come to me and say, Mrs. Cole can we have a party Saturday night?

(D) Well now, Vera came when we entered high school.

(N) And I would say, you want a party? What's the idea? Oh nothing. We just want a party. I'd say sure. And I'd say to them, boys, what do you want to have. what refreshments? And they'd say potato pancakes. I said oh my God. And they'd say no. Just potato pancakes, that's all and coffee. Well they had about six or eight young people and I started with my turkey platter to make popato pancakes for all of them. I filled my turkey platter twice and there wasn't a pancake left. And I went down the cellar and got two quarts of apple sauce and put it on the dining room table. Another time they wanted to have a party and I said you don't want potato pancakes, for goodness sake. What could we have Mrs. Cole? I said well, how would you like squash puffs. What are they like? I said well I'll make them and then you will find out. So I made my turkey platter filled twice with squash puffs. They ate nothing else.

(I) Squash puffs. I never heard of them.

(N) Well you make an egg batter, you know. And then you cook the curly squash and cook up two of those and take the pits out and peel them and cut them up and cook them until they're done and then mash them like mashed potatoes and fold them in with the egg batter and then drop them by teaspoons in the hot Crisco. Then another time she and some of the girls wanted a bridge club, wait until you hear this. They wanted a bridge party. So I said all right. So I said I will make homemade biscuits and coffee and I had plenty of jam and stuff. Oh that would be wonderful. So I make at least 50 homemade biscuits and I looked in the oven when they were coming and they were just golden brown, they were beautiful. My husband was sitting in the kitchen talking to me and I said now they're done. I opened the oven door and they weren't any further up then they were before. I said Clarence, I made a mistake. I forgot to put the baking powder in. They were waiting for refreshments. My God, Ellie, he said. what are you going to do? Let me think. Let me think. I don't know. I have to feed those kids. I know. I said go out in the barn and get some apples. We had gold delicious apple trees and they were in the barn wrapped in paper, you know. He brought me in a dishpan full. And I happened to have a big tin of walnuts. So I made Waldorf salad. And I made it for the eight youngsters. And I served it on my best china and beautiful lettuce cups and everything. So I took it out and I had saltines I put on the side. So Clarisse said where are the biscuits? I said be quiet. I'll tell you after. So she kept looking at me. And one of the girls said Mrs. Cole, what happened? I said I forgot the baking powder and they laughed. There I was with 50 biscuits that were no good. I had to throw them in the garbage. That was the biggest faux pax I made in my whole life. Oh boy. Another time you know, Mrs. McMann, Kitty's mother, her nephews had gone hunting and they got ducks, wild ducks. And they were going to have a duck dinner on Sunday. So Monday I went over there in fact, Kitty came over and said my mother wants to see you Monday afternoon. I didn't know what I had done. So I went over there. And she said Ellie, come in the kitchen. And she said look at this. Don't they look wonderful I said. Wonderful, she said, nothing, you can't eat them. I said what's the matter? She said my god, they taste like fish. I said what did you do? And she told me. And I said didn't you salt them down the night before? Nobody ever told me that. I said no wonder they taste like fish. You might just as well throw them out. She said why didn't I ask you this before I cooked them. I said that's your problem. Here she had cooked two great big wild ducks, roasted them, they were beautiful and stuffed them and they were rotten, they were awful. They were terrible.

(I) Well tell us about some of your other neighbors then that started to come in there. You were talking about the Nelsons before. And who else. Did you know ... were you very friendly with the Nelson's?

(N) Oh yes. Very friendly with the Nelson's. and the Nibby's. Well you know Mrs. Nibby lived in Prospect Terrace South. And they lived there and when Clarisse was seven years old, I had to take her to Hackensack Hospital for an operation. A tonsillectomy. And I was afraid of it and I spoke at the Guild meeting about it and Mrs. Nibby heard me and she said when are you going and I told her. She said I'll go with you. So she went with me and stayed with me until Clarisse came out. She was a lovely person.

(D) She had a very soft, a very gentle, almost like an Alsace Lorraine attitude. I guess she was German. Was she German?

(N) Oh very. Yes.

(D) And you were talking about Mrs. Frankie too because she used to ... she had such a nice soft German accent.

(N) Well Mrs. Frankie had Selma and Lita and Carl. And we used to go there after school for coffee and she'd give us coffee and cake, you know. So one time I had a birthday party ...

(D) They were a pretty family

(N) Lita had a birthday party and invited us all for it and my grandmother made me a beautiful dress, white, and she had 25 yards of lace on it. So I went to the party and Lita didn't talk to me for three months because I had a new dress and she didn't have a new dress. I didn't tell her about the new dress. We laughed about it many a time since then. Well we used to clash a lot because Lita was a leader and so was I and you can't put two leaders together and make them acquiese all the time because it just isn't done. And she took charge of this and I wanted to take charge. Or I would take charge of it and she would want to take charge. Where Kitty was entirely different.

(I) Weren't you active in the Eastern Star and in the Lady Foresters and things like that?

(N) Oh I am so glad you asked me. I have my 50 year pin. I would like to show it to you. 50 years an Eastern Star. And I just received it. And then I got a card yesterday. It says, Dear Ellie, Imagine the brightest and the cheeriest thoughts and the warmest wishes too. Then you'll know that this card brings all this especially for you. Congratulations on the happy occasion of your 50th chapter birthday. Sincerely and Fraternally, the Past Matrons and Patrons of Teaneck Chapter. Teaneck Chapter #218. Order of the Eastern Star. And then I must show you my 50 year pin. And nine of the Eastern Stars and the Master Mason came last Monday and presented me with my pin. And then Bella Perlin, who was worthy matron this one year and she came to me and asked me if I wouldn't like to be her chaplain. And I said I would like it very much so she told me that I was the best chaplain Teaneck Chapter ever had. And on their 50th banquet all of the officers from the grand chapter, they received a pin and she said I want you to have my pin. And it's cut jade.

(I) Oh, isnt' that beautiful. That's jade with 14K gold around it. and here's the chapter emblem itself. It says 50 years on it. That is very nice.

(D) Mother was chapter member.

(I) Who were some of the others?

(N) Mrs. Nelson, Mrs. James, Mrs. Stutts.

(I) Stutts? She lived down near you too, didn't she?

(N) No. she was from Englewood. She's dead, you know.

(I) So tell me about some of these other ladies ...

(N) And Mrs. Nelson's sister, Mae Sampson, she was on the charter and Agnes Easterbrook at the time, she was on the charter and she was an officer, she was associate matron and Auntie Nelson was worthy matron of the chapter and Janet Cherry was an officer and Teenie James was an officer and I believe that's all from Teaneck. There were several women from Englewood but I don't remember any more.

(I) Well I heard you mention Agnes Esterbrook. I haven't hears that name in ...

(N) Oh yes. Before she was married again, you know. She's Mrs. George Hardy now. She divorced Walter Easterbrook. And she married Walter Hardy and he's the past grand patron of the Teaneck chapter, not Teaneck, of Eastern Star of New Jersey. He was past grand patron. And she married him. And they were married five years and he died of a heart attack. He is the most wonderful man I have ever met. Oh, he was wonderful. And Agnes was tall and thin, you know. Well now you should see her. She's that size. They lived on Forest Avenue. Forest Avenue and Congress.

(I) Weren't they very friendly with the Nelson's?

(N) Who, the Esterbrook's? Sure, she married Walter Esterbrook, Agnes. They were very friendly.

(D) You remember Katie and Mamie and Bessy and I can't remember all their names. I know Bessie because I went to school with her.

(I) What about some other activities. What did you do? Well you had parties you said.

(N) Well I was very active in the Lady Foresters of America. Golden Star Circle #35. I am past commander of that. And I was very active in the Foresters and then I was also active in the church, very active in the church. In fact that's all I know when I was growing up was going to church. Church activities. That's all we did, Lita and I. I am the oldest member of Teaneck church. Oh we had a lot of fun in that dramatic club. Like the girls said here, were you an actress? I said I can say that I was an amateur actress, yes. I said for many years, I said Edna Foster and I were in every play that Mr. Hazelton gave. And I said when I was very young, my mother wanted me to, they know a man who was an actor, and he wanted my mother to put me on the stage because I was double jointed, I was a very good dancer. And my father said no, he'd rather see me dead than be an actress. So I wasn't a regular actress but I was an amateur actress for about 12 years.

(I) Well those days it wasn't the profession to be in. The only thing to do was to be a nurse or a schoolteacher. That was the only things open to a woman. Well I think we've about got it.

(N) At times since I have been in this nursing home, different patients have come to me and asked me if I had a lot of pain and how I felt and I said, yes, I have. Well I have too but nothing helps me. They don't seem to help me here. Not one but many came to me. And finally I said to the one lady, have you ever tried prayer? She said yes but I say my prayers but they don't say what I mean. I said I know what you mean. Would you like to try my trick? Yes, I'd like to hear what it is. Well, I said, I'll tell you what you do. When you go home tonight, you go to bed, don't say, Dearest Father, say Dearest Friend because God is the dearest friend you have. And I said then talk to God, in your own words, talk to God. Tell him not only your big troubles but all your little troubles, unload it, because God said place them at my feet. I am asking you to do that. I'll take care of them for you. Do that. Then when you are finished, I said, tell him that you appreciate the beautiful day that we just had. And I said then I want you to say the hardest thing in the world that there is to say and I have learned to say it, not mine, but thy will be done. I said and then go to sleep. And I said now I'm not going to read a passage out of the bible at all but I said I'm going to recite to you my favorite psalm and it has helped me because it says everything that I want to say and I said I want you to make it your favorite psalm too. The Lord is my shepherd I shall not want. He leadeth me beside the still waters. He leadeth me in paths of righteousness for all his namesake. Yeah, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for God is with me. Thy rod and they staff, they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemies. Thou anointest my head with oil. My cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow all the days of my life and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever and ever. Amen. And now God bless each and every one of you. Goodnight.

(I) That's just a beautiful way to end this lovely interview.


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